RRB

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by RosvoRoope, Nov 5, 2017.

?

Do you want chance to be changed?

  1. yes

    13 vote(s)
    65.0%
  2. no

    7 vote(s)
    35.0%
  1. RosvoRoope

    RosvoRoope Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Female
    Suggestion about increasing zelnaris crafting chance: Zelnaris recipes drops from RRB Also known as red revolutioners base. Among the materials required There is 12 dailies, And 65 zelnaris Soul stones for sword and 90 for staff. 12 days is allmost 2 weeks of our time, And at the same time the crafting chance is Very Low. With the current population, the players who do rrb, And the players who Are strong enough to run it, Its Simply too requiring to keep failing. Its demotivating, And the "weaker" players dont Even bother Because They think it will fail only. The zelnaris weapons is indeed very strong and the best weapons ingame, but cant be tempered without mythical tempering stones that rarely drops. Thats why the crafted weapon wouldnt help much without the people running rrb often, and it wouldnt be unfair if the crafting chance was high. People would have to farm the tempering stones additionally and that would be motivating too.
     
  2. Ruyran

    Ruyran Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Well okay, here are my thoughts to this...

    1. If you want a change of craft chances, the material costs should also be adapted to it.
    so either a) increase the craft chances to normal/high and equivalently increase the mats by 100-200%
    or b) put the craft-chance to 100% BUT increase the costs of crafting to x10 (Staff for example 900 Soulstones, 120 daily marks, 7000 Ingots etc) so it would still an enormous amount of time (worthy a god-weapon) but be an ultimately guaranteed reward.

    2. Another option to make the Zelnaris items more accessable for those who really are willing to work for them (apadted to the server population, as we definitely wont get a market for Zelnaris Soulstones running like official KR's) would be to decrease the material costs (like 30-50% less Soulstones needed, the rest can probably stay as it is), but therefor leave the craft chance as it is to keep it fair.
    Or boost the droprate for soulstones so all party members profit and wont go home empty handed.

    Also... as we know the craft allone wont do anything as the blank Zelnaris weapon will still be weaker than a well pushed Alsas weapon at the moment. People will still need Mythical Tempering Stones, so some might like to see a droprate boost for those aswell (but only for 5th and 6th boss, as the first 4 bosses should be relatively easily doable with a decent party) to adapt to the resulting crafting rate if any of these changes mentioned above would be applied.

    So all in all. If changes would be made, keep it fair so you still need to work a good bunch for it. I mean we're talking about the God of Ruins power here :D
    This shouldn't land in the hand of every 2nd person eventually and remain rare.
    But I wouldn't say it'a neccessary for those who are currently working on it since we already had some ppl trying to craft by now. And eventually there will be a craft or 2
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
    Aphroditea and KnightEcho like this.
  3. Sovereign

    Sovereign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, its an nice topic to be discussed.

    The amount of players right now on the server that we play wich can do RRB i have to agree that's too low, yes, i agree with that. But there is several "Afk" or "Casual" players on the server who don't care about getting strong and do progress, 'cause you know... They have jobs, they have family, they have other things to do. I don't blame them, i honestly don't, it's an different way to see the game than us. Even if they do Jeranin, they gonna compete with players that already have +15 further tempered alsas armor/Weapon and they gonna pick like 1 box at maximum and they will depend RNG to receive good status items, wich is one of the things that discourages them to get strong at the game, this is something that it's true you agreeing or not.

    About the craft chance, well, i already failed on my scepter, of course i'd feel bad about it, but so what? I'm gonna make RRB over and over again to join the stones and try to craft again, like i did EFF time ago to complete my alsas 3slots set (Not Succession). What i usually see in KR server is that, they run every single day RRB, even knowing that is "Low Chance" they still wanna do RRB and craft their stuff. Also you can farm mobs in some points inside there that gives you stones, lv.60 weapon/armor/jewel reforging stones, reverse, reedemers and other stuff but, what people do? They rather waste time trying to kill a boss that they don't have idea how to do it and not farming thoose mobs.

    "High" chance would be honestly a bad joke like Jeranin nowdays, since RRB is based on strategy, teamwork and mainly COMMUNICATION (wich is something that i've never saw). I remember running RRB with GhostBrHu3, wich is a player that never runned it before and i was passing the instructions to him and telling him what to do at the bosses and he did pretty good, better than other players that i've played with on RRB, because what? I was with him on Discord telling what to do. Almost 100% of the groups that i join, is voiceless, we have to use the chat, wich is bad, because sometimes you throw a alert,advice or something and you can't.

    I already said this many times to the people who played with me along the time:
    "If you wanna the best, you gonna have to be prepared to the worst" that's what "low chance" means.
     
  4. Ruyran

    Ruyran Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Well written. Totally agree on Sovereign here aswell.
     
  5. Pomona

    Pomona Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Me and my friends always use discord, and we play together and communicate very well together.
    And if you wanna be the best you gotta be prepared to work hard, but this version lacks the big playerbase and marketplace to make it accessible as it is on korean version
     
  6. Younha

    Younha GameMaster Staff Member GameMaster

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Moderating for Project Icarus 2.0!
    Location:
    Ellora!
    Can't and not going to change it to a higher rate. It is supposed to be a end-game weapon. Icarus is becoming so much easier with every single update.
    And Zelnaris used to be "Very Low" and now it has already been changed to "Low", we're gonna leave it at that.
     
    Swagafire, GhostBrHu3 and Sovereign like this.
  7. WhiteBerry

    WhiteBerry Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Here's the thing right: I am okay with the daily mats requirement because killing the first two bosses would only be a maximum of 20 minutes once you know what you're doing (even without being super geared)

    So, if you can't spare 20 minutes to get the first two bosses done (for daily zel mark) with a group of players who are more casual and short on time, then I don't that Zelnaris is a realistic expectation for the amount of play-time. Like everyone said, it is the GOD tier weapon.

    You are wrong in thinking that the reason weaker players don't run RRB is because they will fail. After all, the Alsas simple recipes were crafted by both weak and strong players, with no guarantee of success nor good stats, nor 3 slots. The fact of the matter is that they simply haven't put themselves in a position to do RRB successfully and don't want to run the hassle of entering with weaker gear.

    I remembering enter RRB when I had much weaker gear, I find that players aren't willing to run RRB unless they are offered a spot in a very well-geared and experienced party. Why is that? It seems like players aren't willing to go through the grind or the hassle.

    Then there are some players who can't see that who don't see that to get Zelnaris they need to either drop really good Alsas or put in the effort to go Alsas succession and then get Zelnaris. You can't expect to buy most of the materials

    If the "weaker players" had the approach to go succession to achieve perfect gear, RRB would be the natural path to progression. What happens after you get Alsas 3slot INT INT / STR STR? You start to reverse, you temper, you seal with Ancients.

    Where do reverse stones, ancient marks, lvl 60 reforging stones and so on drop? RRB. So any player who is looking to progress in the game must realise that the best way to do so is succession and then RRB.

    It seems like a no-brainer to me.

    RRB provides a lot more than just "Zelnaris" and it is the natural path to gear progression for most players. After all, most players do not have full +25 fully Reversed Alsas with +7 Ancient seals, perfect (triple INT/triple STR) and full 6/6 overrise.

    If the "weaker" players decided succession is too hardcore and tempered their dropped good-ish Alsas to +20, had some good seals, they could still run RRB and it would still help to upgrade their gear.

    The point I'm trying to make here is that RRB helps to upgrade everyone's gear as long as they are willing and mildly strong enough to run it.

    It will help someone who isn't as geared, on +15 Alsas who has 70-90% ancient seals, hasn't fully overrised his armor, and has no +7 seals.
    It will help a top player to get full +7 seals or save extractors for 67 seals, reroll some of his stuff to triple INT and to fully reverse his armour/weapon.

    All of this does not include the obvious benefit of working your way up to Zelnaris.

    If a weaker player wants to get stronger they would try and get perfect Alsas and a part of that involves running RRB. If they don't want to get near perfect Alsas then how do they expect to just jump into Zelnaris?

    I don't think you're speaking on behalf of all the weaker players here. Weaker players do not go succession, which is the obvious optimal route to gear improvement. As a result, they aren't running RRB.

    Chances are, if they're willing to go succession, they're willing to go RRB.

    You're making the assumption that there are weaker players on this server who are willing to improve their gear but are going to stop once they get full +20/25 Alsas, and would want to ignore RRB.

    I don't think that weaker players have that attitude. Weaker players who are looking to get stronger will improve their gear till they can run RRB since it gives them huge gear improvements.

    It wouldn't make sense for them to improve until the point where RRB is the obvious gear path and they say "nope, RRB gives great loot and I'm geared enough to run it, but I won't"

    That argument doesn't make sense.

    All the weaker players who I have spoken to who are looking to improve are willing to run RRB for Zelnaris.

    If they aren't willing to work their way towards really good Alsas (high tempers, good stats etc), then Zelnaris shouldn't even be in the picture for them.

    What you're essentially saying is weaker players who will become strong won't run RRB when they start getting strong

    I have just proven that this isn't true.

    Now, to address the part of the thread which actually matters to me

    Should the Zelnaris succession materials be changed? Maybe, due to lack of population. I think that the lack of a marketplace for crafting materials and lack of parties does make it harder for people to achieve Zelnaris on this server.

    Or, should the crafting chance be changed?

    This is something I'd prefer to vouch for. I'd much rather have a higher chance of crafting with the same amount of materials than try multiple times with a lower chance, only to be frustrated.

    I personally think that the Zelnaris daily marks should not be touched at all, neither should the gold required.

    Maybe the the crafting chance should be increased to Normal due to lack of server population and RRB parties as a result. However, I think that the other materials required should not be touched.

    A combination of the two could be implemented but I think that would make Zelnaris crafting too easy

    Keep the materials as they are, increase the crafting chance to Normal. I hate RNG and I'm sure others do too.
     
    Swagafire likes this.
  8. Sax3r28

    Sax3r28 Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't have any problem running it with my crappy lazard, but no geared group will get me in a party and tell me how it works since "I suck", and the other crappy geared players like me don't even join easy runs like tomb or l50, let alone running rrb. Even just farming at the start would be something, but almost no one cares about that, and who does has his standards.

    The only hassle, at least for me, is getting past a +10/+12 ellora, considering almost no one does zenon for the tempering set, and the one and only +25 piece I managed to buy was back in August.

    Can't say sht about the crafting rate, all I managed to fail were 2 ruinous potions :c
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  9. Ruyran

    Ruyran Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    #Off-Topic.@Sax3r28
    If you need Zeneon for tempering set, there should be enough players who can help to kill it quickly if you ask for it, also in lazard you should even be able to solo it if you know his mechs/"rotation" without any problem.
    #Off-Topic end.

    For RRB tho... it doesn't make much sense to just farm the start mobs. At least trying to kill first 2 bosses for the daily, getting used to them etc. Farming mobs only without beeing able to kill any boss is totally pointless in there tbh. ;/
    But for that matter, a full lazard party should be able to do first boss at least, and look how to handle 2nd boss for themselves, if there are no "carriers" in the party. As for taking low geared players into the hardest dungeon ingame, i dunno.. people want to progress as smoothely as possible and even well geared parties sometimes struggle at some parts, and would be even more if one or some would be in lazard/ellora or untempered alsas gears.
     
  10. Sax3r28

    Sax3r28 Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    #
    The only one that came killing it was Brindi and we got nuthin, and even knowing its rotations all of my skills but one are destabs, and don't ask me how but he always manages to hit me from the other side of the room.
    I'd be fine even sending someone who got the set already both the item and the tempering stones needed, but got no replies till now
    #

    I can't try killing them if I can't get a party, even a lazard one xD and ye I get they wanna have a 'chill' run, but at this rate no one apart them will ever know how to do it, so we're kind of stuck, aren't we?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  11. WhiteBerry

    WhiteBerry Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    So, I believe perfect Ellora gear shouldn't be ignored. Everyone wants this new easy method of Lazard and thinks it's sufficient. I prefer going down the harder route.

    Go +25 Divine Wrath. it's fairly simple to achieve with 190 elite tempering stones dropping so frequently. Or simply shout to buy +25 pieces.

    Another method is to get the stones (come on, you can farm 40's), then give that to a person in your guild who has full Spice Rabinis and is willing to +25 it for you without using elluns.

    Run braghin mines to get stones to surpass the Divine gear if gold is an issue.

    So now you've got +25 6/6 Divine Gear. Reroll it till you get perfect stats. Sorted.

    Now you've got perfect Divine armor, just need to get Ancient Veldons or Ancient Casperts.

    You can get marks even from Legendary 40 dungens from the mark boxes, or if you're lucky by taming 5 elites a day. Other than that you can also get them from familiar adventures. Having a Runelon and Garilon/Poron for extra loot and shorter familiar adventure time really helps. These adventures will also give you +5 extractors.

    Great, so with some time and effort, doing spire and other dungeons alongside for gold, you've finally got +25 Divine Wrath STR STR/INT INT with +5 Ancient Veldons/Casperts. At this point you are probably geared enough to run RRB given that your weapon is tempered high (and preferably reversed + awakened).

    If you're a priest then your skill matters more. From this point you can probably look into going Alsas Succession.

    Alsas Weapons and +25 Divine Wrath with Ancient Seals and mostly perfect stats is sufficient to run RRB and we'd gladly take someone (given their skill lives up to their gear of course).

    In fact, in our last run we did take a player on Lazard's gear and were able to clear the first 4 bosses.

    Here's why we're hesitant to take players slightly less geared AND with no experience:

    With a geared and experienced party we are easily able to clear the first 5 bosses and one player constantly dying can have a huge impact as it burdens the priest, can result in wasted Blessed Revival Scrolls, lack of DPS and therefore mobs respawning, extra aggro at the wrong time, more deaths and time wasted.

    Therefore, you are right in saying there is a bit of a blockade into entering RRB but equally so people are usually short of one DPS or healer and are willing to take chances.

    Alternatively, the players who are really suited to running RRB will work their way from the ground-up and prove themselves, every player who hasn't been playing since forever has had to do that. After all, it's like that with Spire too, isn't it?

    You do have to prove yourself at least by gear, and I don't understand why you think that's a bad thing. Sorry if this sounds a bit elitist but the players who belong in RRB will really show that they belong there. It's always been like that.

    There isn't the need to carry casuals for the sake of them being "bored of lack of content" or "not being geared enough". We shouldn't have to put in more effort than the people who we are helping.

    While I do admit it is slightly harder for some people to break into the parties running RRB and gain experience, they will eventually get a chance since people are usually short of a player and I'm sure the good players will prove themselves.

    I hope you don't think it's too elitist and can understand where I'm coming from. :)
     
    Wunschpunsch likes this.
  12. Sax3r28

    Sax3r28 Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    That would be relatively easy if 8 guilds on 10 weren't afk in plaza or in familiar farm; I might be repetitive but it takes me weeks to find a party, and since I can't solo more than 50 l3 my drop is what is. And even being in a guild didn't help since almost no one even answered in chat. I too didn't like to run with less geared people back on crapxon, but I did it 'cause I wanted people to be able to make a party themselves.
    And no one seems to be willing to temper the pieces since I've started asking around :c

    Btw, what's the difference between bless and wrath? Still have to figure that out o.o since there weren't +10 or +25 wrath on ah, I just went bless.
     
  13. Swagafire

    Swagafire Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ellora Bless gear is more for hp and def
    Divine Wrath gear is for dps
     
    Wunschpunsch likes this.
  14. Sax3r28

    Sax3r28 Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Aight, so as a priest/idol bless is fine I take?
     
  15. WhiteBerry

    WhiteBerry Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    In all honesty Ellora Bless/Divine Wrath doesn't make a difference at all. When you are +25 with STR STR/INT INT, the difference won't even be noticeable.

    It's really a negligible difference, all things considered. This is doubly true when you throw in the Ancient familiar seals. What class are you btw Sax?
     
  16. Sax3r28

    Sax3r28 Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    First made a guard when I moved here with old guildies as they needed one, but since soloing took too much I made an idol, but now I've been told people don't need idols in rrb or something like that, so I thought about making a priest, which is what I started with in the other server.
    But at the moment I'd say idol.
     
  17. Parma

    Parma Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    For a very long time there was no one running RRB at all. The only way to make up for it is to run it every day that you can. Also can't force more people to run it because as Sovereign said some people play the game more casually and RRB is in fact an hardcore dungeon.
    On a different note I'd like a GM or someone who plays on Korean server to confirm if the new blue talismans Lv1-Lv5 they have there are talismans that increase crafting success rate. Because if it is and we get that content soon, that's gonna help.

    As for Ellora/Divine set the difference is the last set effect. Ellora has a chance to activate a buff that protects against all damage while Divine has a chance to activate a buff that increases Atk.
     

Share This Page